Fiber HUB reqd for multiple high speed connections...?

[g***@cyberdude.com]

My ISP gives (max) 1 Gbps connections by FTTH to homes etc. My question is, if I have *one* dwelling, say an office which needs TEN or even a HUNDRED connections, *each* of 1 Gbps,....is that possible or does that mean that they will, I donno, need more equipment, or rewiring, or some kind of HUB nearby to make this possible? Or even dig up the ground all over again??!! They seem to have a map of the entire country, with even individual dwellings in *each house* mapped out - and they I think seem to be under the impression that *each* dwelling will get only ONE connection (how they got hold of this data I don't know!) So - is it possible? If not, what are my options? Multiple ISPs??!!


Thanks.

[Robert Wessel]

Post by g***@cyberdude.com
My ISP gives (max) 1 Gbps connections by FTTH to homes etc. My question is, if I have *one* dwelling, say an office which needs TEN or even a HUNDRED connections, *each* of 1 Gbps,....is that possible or does that mean that they will, I donno, need more equipment, or rewiring, or some kind of HUB nearby to make this possible? Or even dig up the ground all over again??!! They seem to have a map of the entire country, with even individual dwellings in *each house* mapped out - and they I think seem to be under the impression that *each* dwelling will get only ONE connection (how they got hold of this data I don't know!) So - is it possible? If not, what are my options? Multiple ISPs??!!

If you actually needed 10Gb or 100Gb service, you'd order that from
the ISP. That is unlikely to be a standard offering for home users,
but will probably be available from their business services division,
although not necessarily to every location they serve (they may not
offer that service to homes, at all, for example).

Multiple connections are a possibility, and from multiple ISPs, but
again, what services they're willing to provide to a home is an issue.
It's highly doubtful that they'd ever agree to install 100 1Gb fibers
to a single house - if they were providing 100Gb service, it would be
via a single link, or possibly a very small number (for example, you
might get 2x50Gb, although multiple lines may present routing issues
that consumer-grade routers won't deal with).

In any event, even if the ISP is providing 1Gb drops to all the homes
in your area, it's likely that there's a fair bit of sharing of a link
somewhere on the way back to the rest of the Internet, and that you
and your neighbors are not going to all manage 1Gb/s simultaneously.
So if you got a bunch of those to one, you're not going to get that
multiple of bandwidth.

The real question is what application do you have in mind where you
need to run 10 or 100Gb/s to a house? In many ways this would be
similar to demanding the power company install 13.8kV/2000A service to
your house. They *can* do that - but they're not, unless you've got a
proper large factory. It's just not something they offer
residentially. Most businesses provision several Mb/s per employee
for normal Internet access, although that varies greatly on what those
employees are doing. And if the business is hosting servers and such,
considerable resources might be dedicated to those. Businesses that
install 100Gb services are usually provisioning fairly large
facilities.

[g***@cyberdude.com]

Post by Robert Wessel
If you actually needed 10Gb or 100Gb service, you'd order that from
the ISP. That is unlikely to be a standard offering for home users,
but will probably be available from their business services division,
although not necessarily to every location they serve (they may not
offer that service to homes, at all, for example).
Multiple connections are a possibility, and from multiple ISPs, but
again, what services they're willing to provide to a home is an issue.
It's highly doubtful that they'd ever agree to install 100 1Gb fibers
to a single house - if they were providing 100Gb service, it would be
via a single link, or possibly a very small number (for example, you
might get 2x50Gb, although multiple lines may present routing issues
that consumer-grade routers won't deal with).
In any event, even if the ISP is providing 1Gb drops to all the homes
in your area, it's likely that there's a fair bit of sharing of a link
somewhere on the way back to the rest of the Internet, and that you
and your neighbors are not going to all manage 1Gb/s simultaneously.
So if you got a bunch of those to one, you're not going to get that
multiple of bandwidth.
The real question is what application do you have in mind where you
need to run 10 or 100Gb/s to a house? In many ways this would be
similar to demanding the power company install 13.8kV/2000A service to
your house. They *can* do that - but they're not, unless you've got a
proper large factory. It's just not something they offer
residentially. Most businesses provision several Mb/s per employee
for normal Internet access, although that varies greatly on what those
employees are doing. And if the business is hosting servers and such,
considerable resources might be dedicated to those. Businesses that
install 100Gb services are usually provisioning fairly large
facilities.

Right, but you're not answering the question though - assume that I AM a business, not just a residence - what would my ISP have to do to get that kind of bandwidth through? If they're not wired for that already...?

[Robert Wessel]

Post by g***@cyberdude.com

Post by Robert Wessel
If you actually needed 10Gb or 100Gb service, you'd order that from
the ISP. That is unlikely to be a standard offering for home users,
but will probably be available from their business services division,
although not necessarily to every location they serve (they may not
offer that service to homes, at all, for example).
Multiple connections are a possibility, and from multiple ISPs, but
again, what services they're willing to provide to a home is an issue.
It's highly doubtful that they'd ever agree to install 100 1Gb fibers
to a single house - if they were providing 100Gb service, it would be
via a single link, or possibly a very small number (for example, you
might get 2x50Gb, although multiple lines may present routing issues
that consumer-grade routers won't deal with).
In any event, even if the ISP is providing 1Gb drops to all the homes
in your area, it's likely that there's a fair bit of sharing of a link
somewhere on the way back to the rest of the Internet, and that you
and your neighbors are not going to all manage 1Gb/s simultaneously.
So if you got a bunch of those to one, you're not going to get that
multiple of bandwidth.
The real question is what application do you have in mind where you
need to run 10 or 100Gb/s to a house? In many ways this would be
similar to demanding the power company install 13.8kV/2000A service to
your house. They *can* do that - but they're not, unless you've got a
proper large factory. It's just not something they offer
residentially. Most businesses provision several Mb/s per employee
for normal Internet access, although that varies greatly on what those
employees are doing. And if the business is hosting servers and such,
considerable resources might be dedicated to those. Businesses that
install 100Gb services are usually provisioning fairly large
facilities.

Right, but you're not answering the question though - assume that I AM a business, not just a residence - what would my ISP have to do to get that kind of bandwidth through? If they're not wired for that already...?

10Gb and faster services are specialized. You need to talk to an ISP
providing that service, and you'll often need to arrange for a fiber
to their facilities (usually you can lease a dark one), often from
some other vendor. 40Gb carrier Ethernet is commonly available in
metropolitan areas, as well as other choices. SONET circuits leased
from a telco are pretty common.

If you want multiple feeds, you need to get assigned an Autonomous
System number, and a big enough block of IP addresses to be routable
(generally anything smaller than a /24 won't be advertised). Then you
need to run BGP4 on the routers connecting your company to the outside
world. Slight modifications of the above for IPv6.

Typically you can get basic symmetrical 10Gb service (not BGP4) for in
the ballpark of $1000/mo, although the lease rates on the fiber might
be a fair chunk depending on the circumstances.

But you need to find a ISP in your area providing that service, and
then figure out how to get connected to them (the carrier may be able
to help). At some point you might need to pay to run the fiber
yourself, then pay for the facilities on which it runs.

[g***@cyberdude.com]

Post by Robert Wessel
10Gb and faster services are specialized. You need to talk to an ISP
providing that service, and you'll often need to arrange for a fiber
to their facilities (usually you can lease a dark one), often from
some other vendor. 40Gb carrier Ethernet is commonly available in
metropolitan areas, as well as other choices. SONET circuits leased
from a telco are pretty common.
If you want multiple feeds, you need to get assigned an Autonomous
System number, and a big enough block of IP addresses to be routable
(generally anything smaller than a /24 won't be advertised). Then you
need to run BGP4 on the routers connecting your company to the outside
world. Slight modifications of the above for IPv6.
Typically you can get basic symmetrical 10Gb service (not BGP4) for in
the ballpark of $1000/mo, although the lease rates on the fiber might
be a fair chunk depending on the circumstances.
But you need to find a ISP in your area providing that service, and
then figure out how to get connected to them (the carrier may be able
to help). At some point you might need to pay to run the fiber
yourself, then pay for the facilities on which it runs.

Thanks for that answer (I'm not in America btw! :) ) There's a ton of stuff in what you said that I'm going to have to Google - what's a DARK fiber, btw? :) Out of curiosity, which company's routers would you recommend for the above job? Why? :)

[Grant Taylor]

Post by g***@cyberdude.com
There's a ton of stuff in what you said that I'm going to have to
Google

Feel free to ask questions.

Post by g***@cyberdude.com
what's a DARK fiber, btw? :)

Fiber that is installed (often in the ground) but doesn't have any light
on it.

Post by g***@cyberdude.com
Out of curiosity, which company's routers would you recommend for
the above job? Why? :)

There are a lot of routers and L3 switches that can be used for a 10
Gbps Internet connection. You can even use a *nix box as the router if
you want to.

Unfortunately, your question is about like asking which pickup truck
would you recommend to haul twenty fifty pound bags of rock salt. A LOT
can do it.

[Robert Wessel]

Post by g***@cyberdude.com

Post by Robert Wessel
10Gb and faster services are specialized. You need to talk to an ISP
providing that service, and you'll often need to arrange for a fiber
to their facilities (usually you can lease a dark one), often from
some other vendor. 40Gb carrier Ethernet is commonly available in
metropolitan areas, as well as other choices. SONET circuits leased
from a telco are pretty common.
If you want multiple feeds, you need to get assigned an Autonomous
System number, and a big enough block of IP addresses to be routable
(generally anything smaller than a /24 won't be advertised). Then you
need to run BGP4 on the routers connecting your company to the outside
world. Slight modifications of the above for IPv6.
Typically you can get basic symmetrical 10Gb service (not BGP4) for in
the ballpark of $1000/mo, although the lease rates on the fiber might
be a fair chunk depending on the circumstances.
But you need to find a ISP in your area providing that service, and
then figure out how to get connected to them (the carrier may be able
to help). At some point you might need to pay to run the fiber
yourself, then pay for the facilities on which it runs.

Thanks for that answer (I'm not in America btw! :) ) There's a ton of stuff in what you said that I'm going to have to Google - what's a DARK fiber, btw? :) Out of curiosity, which company's routers would you recommend for the above job? Why? :)

When fiber optic cable is laid, almost always more actual fibers than
are immediately needed are in the cable. The cost of the cable
usually being a small fraction of the cost of getting it run (or at
least the cost differential between a 12-pair and a 24-pair cable is
small relative to the installation costs). The fibers not in use are
"dark". People who own those cables rent the use of those "dark
fibers" to people who need them.

There really are only a few choices for infrastructure routers at that
level, most of my experience has been with Cisco.

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Robert Wessel
There really are only a few choices for infrastructure routers at
that level, most of my experience has been with Cisco.

This surprises me.

I can get many L3 switches from multiple vendors that support 10 Gbps.
I can get quite a few traditional routers from most of the same vendors
that support 10 Gbps.

I can get some L3 switches from multiple vendors that support 25 / 40 /
50 / 100 Gbps interfaces.

I can get some traditional routers with some of those interfaces.

Once you start crossing 10 Gbps interfaces, it becomes more difficult
for a Linux / *BSD box to pass packets fast enough. But there are
people working on it and have achieved the 10 Gbps mark. I expect that
they have gotten faster, particularly with DPDK.

Cisco Catalyst 4900M / Nexus 3000 line / NCS 5000 line all come to mind
at 10 Gbps, some of which can do faster.

Juniper QFX 5100 comes to mind.

We use some model of Juniper traditional router that has multiple 100
Gbps line cards in them.

I feel like there are more than "a few" choices. Perhaps the limiting
factor that I'm not taking into account is "infrastructure routers".

Please elaborate on what you mean Robert.

[Grant Taylor]

Post by Robert Wessel
10Gb and faster services are specialized. You need to talk to an ISP
providing that service, and you'll often need to arrange for a fiber
to their facilities (usually you can lease a dark one), often from
some other vendor.

I think I've heard some noise about Ten Gigabit Passive Optical
Networks. Though I've not heard of any actual deployments yet.

Post by Robert Wessel
40Gb carrier Ethernet is commonly available in metropolitan areas,
as well as other choices. SONET circuits leased from a telco are
pretty common.

I thought that 10 Gbps Ethernet wasn't compatible with SONET / SDH.
Maybe there are other speeds that are comparable or that would otherwise
suffice.

Is SONET / SDH being used for anything faster than 10 Gbps?

Post by Robert Wessel
If you want multiple feeds, you need to get assigned an Autonomous
System number, and a big enough block of IP addresses to be routable
(generally anything smaller than a /24 won't be advertised).
Then you need to run BGP4 on the routers connecting your company to
the outside world. Slight modifications of the above for IPv6.

Multiple feeds from the same ISP don't require that. Multiple ISPs can
work with provider dependent IPs, but you'd likely want to step up to
provider independent which would require an ASN and IP range /24 or larger.

Post by Robert Wessel
But you need to find a ISP in your area providing that service,
and then figure out how to get connected to them (the carrier may be
able to help). At some point you might need to pay to run the fiber
yourself, then pay for the facilities on which it runs.

Oy vey. Accessing right-of-way as an independent party is possible, but
is quite complicated, time consuming, and expensive.