Discussion:
The Truth about Corona Virus Situation and what every person should know.
(too old to reply)
s***@hotmail.com
2020-04-25 03:33:50 UTC
Permalink
Corona Update 4 (25 april(4) 2020):

After 10 days news is somewhat slowing down about Corona Virus.

However I did re-search if there is any correlation between pandemics and radiation. I may have to re-search how "small ammounts" of radiation might change Earth's magnetic field. However for now there seems to be so many virusses and epidemics and pandemics that it's inconclusive over a large period of time except that there have been many virusses throughout the ages.

However I do see some significant sparks such as 1918, 2002, 2009, 2019 all in correlation with radio/radiation/1g/2g/3g/4g/5g advances.

Anyway enough about the speculation time to inject some more thruths into this thread =D cause that is the topic of this thread.

1. TRUE DEATH numbers are almost twice as high as official reported DEATH numbers.

Most interesting article: The case of 36.000 missing deaths

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

2. Other interesting articles about pandemics:

(Seems close to 1 billion people died from virusses (1.000.000.00) !)

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/history-of-pandemics-deadliest/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandemic
https://www.history.com/topics/middle-ages/pandemics-timeline
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

3. In the Netherlands mouth caps/masks not yet mandatory. Rest of Europe seems to start using masks. I personally don't have a mask yet.

4. I went to the super market today 25/4/2020. Had a big sneeze and some coughing... Hope I don't have corona now :) It was doable. I could notice much less people and cars around as I passed through the city.

5. I was disappointed and amazed/surprised the super market wasn't selling any mouth masks ?! There was a guy cleaning the carts and some hand washing stuff was there and some lines on the ground. I was very worried the air conditioning unit might transport the virus around. I kept thinking to myself 1.5 meter distance, 1.5 meter distance, 1.5 meter distance, cause I am not used to this.
One guy came a bit close I was not amuzed by that. Also one mother and her kid and an acquitance was talking in the super market as well as two employees. I also was not amuzed by this. There should be a "no talking" policy. Especially the kid kinda scared me a bit, cute girl... but shut the fuck up already lol. The blond chick seemed somewhat wild and I was sure she is the type to catch this virus, cause I could just see the look on her face, she don't care.
Fortunately most people do seem to care and where quiet and keeping distance =D
I am scared of stupid blonds now not taking this seriously ! LOL.

6. Old people died hard in The Netherlands in care give houses. The employees were not well protected with masks and such.

7. Netherlands officials keep claiming masks don't help. However masks do help to block the virus when coughing and such. The countries with masks are doing much better now. Personally I am glad the mouth masks are not yet manditory, but if it does become manditory I would like to buy one somewhere locally.
I guess these things are in short supply, I hope that changes in one month or so when I might need to go to super market again.

8. The corona app idea to inform people of infections around them is no success so far, to much security/privacy concerns. I already thought about such apps long time ago and discussed it with my mother. She found it a bad idea, and me too actually because once you go this route you can start creating all kinds of "snitching"-apps and then our privacy goes out of the window.

So I do not approve of these endavours not even for a pandemic because it will probably very quickly slide of into a big-brother-is-snitching-on-you-situation for everybody. Sometimes it's better not to know certain things =D

9. 5G masts continue to be burned in Netherlands so far one arrest was made.

10. Strangely enough entrance door of appartment complex I lived in failed/became defect for the third time. Maybe people/person taking out frustration/anger on electrical devices ?! Not sure ! ;)

11. Lately I see some strange people on the streets, coughing, bums, sneezing, kinda weird. Didn't really seem them before, this is kinda new. Some I did see... Maybe they stand out now a bit more cause all "normal" people stay at home and the strange ones are out on the streets. Though seem some new faces, kinda bizar.

12. I see an increase in cars moving/driving around. I find this quite annoying. I just hope it's only for necessities. I am worried about this. Maybe a new spark of virus spreading will occur if it's not halted soon.

13. Netherlands goverment has decided kids can go to school again. I worry about this too. This is why I fear kids the most now... I can imagine them quickly all touching stuff that is infected and then spreading it everywhere they go which it's hopefully not that many places, however they will also infect their parents probably, officials say it's the other way around... we'll see... I am not too confident this is going to go well.

14. Hospitals in Netherlands are doing well and are somewhat releaved there are less cases, however this is kinda non-sense because many old people have died in care taking houses instead of going to ICU/hospitals.

15. Lock down is violation of the ground laws in the Netherlands.

16. Suggestions have been made to also include engineers and financial experts in deciding corona virus/crisis approach, I am not sure if this advise will be implemented in goverment decision process.

17. Estimated costs of crisis so far is 90 billion euros for Netherlands alone and this number will surely rise. This is a shortage basically, year before that there was a surplus of 12 billion euros. (billion in this case is 1.000.000.000). So the economic costs of this seems to be quite huge already.

18. Europe seems to have approved a "financial help package" of 500 billion euros ! and it might be increased to 1500 billion euros ! Mark Rutten our Prime Minister called these numbers "dazzling".

19. Personally I come to the conclusion that Bill Gate worries about virusses was correct seeing the huge list of virusses and huge deaths these have caused through humanity. Is he trying to make a buck out of it ? Well, time will tell ;)

20. We/humans are not so good yet at fighting/solving these virusses, personally I must come to the conclusion that "flight" itself all over the global is super dangerous right now and should not continue for a long time until we learn how to fight and cure these virusses properly.

21. Estimated number of Corona Deaths right now is approaching the 200.000+ mark. Real number is probably twice that.

22. Number of deaths in Netherlands alone is 100+ on a daily basis. So if this continues throughout the year then the small country of The Netherlands may easily face 100x300 days = 30000 deaths easily by the end of the year.

23. UK believes real death numbers in China could be 15 to 40 times higher then reported.

24. Estimated number of infections world wide is now approaching 3 million cases (3.000.000).

25. Some businesses are going bankrupt, others don't pay rent any more for buildings or only half.

26. In case corona virus did not go from dolphins to bats then we will probably face another pandemic soon where it goes from dolphins to humans or something like that.

27. In other news a comet is approaching earth that was documented by egyptians 4000 Before Christ. In my coincide with planet X also moving close to earth. Planet X might through comets towards Earth and Earth may be hit by comets soon causing mass death, which might eclipse the Corona Crisis. This comet is called Atlast and was also discovered in late december 2019. Comets are believed to be the messengers of news, bad news and are believed to announce DOOM. Also two objects would be needed to tilt/change the north south pole of earth, this seems to be happening, thus the hypothesis of Planet X seems very likely. Perhaps mayan calender ment 2020 as the year of disaster. 2 is the number of the devil, and 2020 has plenty of 2's in it. 2x2, does this spell "the devil's year" ?
2x0 dooms day ? I for one am seriously curious what is going to happen this year ! ;)

Concerning comet atlas it may be visible end april or begin may in northen hemisphere... at night... it might be quite spectacular cause it's becoming more bright. I am curious if I will see it with the naked-eye ! ;)

28. President Trump of the USA had an interesting idea to NUKE the virus inside the lungs with UV light/radiation to kill the virus. A tube could be injected and then a heavy light shined into the lungs. I am very curious if such a treatment would work to kill off the virus without killing much of the lungs themselfes ?!

29. As far as I can tell basically all countries in world are taking Corona Virus more seriously and have implemented some form of lock down, there are very few countries that didn't it seems. Sweden is trying a no-lock down approach sounds dangerous to me. I think also Den Mark loosened restrictions and allowing kids to go to school. Netherlands goverment says to follow the developments in Den Mark... kids will go to school soon in Netherlands 11 may 2020 to be precise. I think this is foolish but time will tell. Any tourist or traveller thinking of visitting the Netherlands, don't be near kids is my advise ! =D
I am also curious if parents will go with this or are too scared to send their kinds to school and then what will happen ?! ;)

30. Corona Virus seems to make people feel up and then down again, better and then sick again... so it's a deceiving/treacherous virus. Human mussles can disappear at 1 kilo per day. Recovery may take up to 1 to 2 years. Eating extra may help and certain special foods or drinks. Netherlands medics are trying to organize/create a corona virus recovery program.

31. According to one health expert most medicine do not seem to help much, but further re-search will occur and it needs to happen on larger groups. Small health benefits are to be expected and ofcourse health side effects.

Before I sign off some other stuff to think about:

32. One medical expert said "we will never get rid of corona".

33. Merkel politician of germany thinks this will take a few years before this is over. I also think this is going to take 2 to maybe even 10 years at this rate. So bussiness owners are way too optimistic to think this will be over in just a few months, at least with current measures I don't see that happening any time soon.

34. Netherlands's "Intelligent" Lock down stays in place till 20 may 2020. All big events cancelled/banned/prohibitted till 1 september 2020. This means also no "scoccer" matchs or events. No concerts, no pinkpop/festivals, No kings day, etc.

Now time for some conspiracy theories:

35. Could very well be an engineered virus. Could contain traces of AID/HIVS and SARS with special gene editing technique called crispr.

36. G5 masts in wuhan could have been erected to support the virus lab in wuhan to prevent having to place cables, to transfer larges quantities of research results and to not have population to suspicious about cables and such.

37. Virus could be released to use it to warrant measures against/control of population.

38. Corona Deaths might actually be caused by other diseases.

39. My personal favorite: Corona Virus come from a recent comet touching down in China somewhere or in the sea somewhere and carried forth by dolphins to bats :)

40. 5G radiation is causing oxygen problems in the blood of some humans. Less uptake of oxygen in the blood.

41. Bill Gates hopes to cash in big on virusses by selling vacines. Most of these vacines kills more people than they cure. LOL Do you really want to inject something into your blood stream from the producer of the ever crashing and blue screening and miss-updating windows operating system ?! LOL. This probably doesn't belong in conspiracy theories and you know it ! ;) =D
I do like windows and many probably do and are fund of it, but maybe to then sue Bill Gates later for all of this money ?! How will he protect himself and his companies against it ?! Sell you a license to inject the shit ? Goverment forced injections ?! Well can you see where this is going once a "vacine" is supposedly to be invented ?! ;) :)

Bye for now,
Skybuck.
Jorgen Grahn
2020-04-25 16:41:34 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
8. The corona app idea to inform people of infections around them is
no success so far, to much security/privacy concerns. I already
thought about such apps long time ago and discussed it with my
mother. She found it a bad idea, and me too actually because once
you go this route you can start creating all kinds of
"snitching"-apps and then our privacy goes out of the window.
The Pirate party showed[0] a solution which would respect privacy.
You have a phone app which roughly:

1. Sends out a series of random numbers over a short-range
communication medium. (I don't own a smartphone so I don't know if
this already exists.)

2. Receives and stores others' random numbers.

3. Receives messages like "the guy who sent <these> random numbers has
been diagnosed with a transmittable disease" and notifies the user
if the app has seen a lot of them.

No central database, and nothing meaningful to sniff for in public
places (not until you get ill anyway).

/Jorgen

[0] I saw it somewhere on Facebook.
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
s***@hotmail.com
2020-04-26 16:53:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jorgen Grahn
...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
8. The corona app idea to inform people of infections around them is
no success so far, to much security/privacy concerns. I already
thought about such apps long time ago and discussed it with my
mother. She found it a bad idea, and me too actually because once
you go this route you can start creating all kinds of
"snitching"-apps and then our privacy goes out of the window.
The Pirate party showed[0] a solution which would respect privacy.
1. Sends out a series of random numbers over a short-range
communication medium. (I don't own a smartphone so I don't know if
this already exists.)
2. Receives and stores others' random numbers.
3. Receives messages like "the guy who sent <these> random numbers has
been diagnosed with a transmittable disease" and notifies the user
if the app has seen a lot of them.
No central database, and nothing meaningful to sniff for in public
places (not until you get ill anyway).
Seems the idea here is to avoid "identification numbers".

Seems like a single person has multiple random identification numbers.

There random indentification numbers would need to be very big others there is too much potential for conflicting and confusing random numbers.

Also the messages in which these are "broadcast" I presume would have to be "anonymous". So no source ip and such.

There is one problem with it though.

Let's suppose random numbers X,Y,Z are from an infected person.

How does infected person re-broadcast these numbers to inform that this person is infected.

There needs to be some information stored about source/dest/contacts to be able to do that.

One other solution could be to re-broadcast these numbers after infection but this would need the infected person to be close again to the original receiver.

Which seems weird or might not happen ever again.

One other solution is to start spreading these random infected numbers via a network/routing.

If this is does anoymous and via broadcasting and no IP then that might work...

However if there is no source ip can it truely be routed effeciently ?

Maybe set all destinations on routers and such... it's a bit weird idea.

Broadcasting would be a useless technology to inform others.

Even multicast might be of some use.

Some people might try to indentify these numbers though.

Bye for now,
Skybuck.
Jorgen Grahn
2020-04-27 10:19:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Jorgen Grahn
...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
8. The corona app idea to inform people of infections around them is
no success so far, to much security/privacy concerns. I already
thought about such apps long time ago and discussed it with my
mother. She found it a bad idea, and me too actually because once
you go this route you can start creating all kinds of
"snitching"-apps and then our privacy goes out of the window.
The Pirate party showed[0] a solution which would respect privacy.
1. Sends out a series of random numbers over a short-range
communication medium. (I don't own a smartphone so I don't know if
this already exists.)
2. Receives and stores others' random numbers.
3. Receives messages like "the guy who sent <these> random numbers has
been diagnosed with a transmittable disease" and notifies the user
if the app has seen a lot of them.
No central database, and nothing meaningful to sniff for in public
places (not until you get ill anyway).
Seems the idea here is to avoid "identification numbers".
Seems like a single person has multiple random identification numbers.
There random indentification numbers would need to be very big
others there is too much potential for conflicting and confusing
random numbers.
Also the messages in which these are "broadcast" I presume would
have to be "anonymous". So no source ip and such.
Yes. The numbers themselves carry no information, but they would have
to be anonymous. Once again, I don't know if this mechanism exists.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
There is one problem with it though.
Let's suppose random numbers X,Y,Z are from an infected person.
How does infected person re-broadcast these numbers to inform that this person is infected.
There needs to be some information stored about source/dest/contacts to be able to do that.
I think my (3) above would be "download today's list of infected
numbers from the national health authority". If none or few of them
match numbers received in (2) you can discard the information.

But I didn't read and understand all the details. The main point was
that it's possible to implement a virus alert mechanism that doesn't
violate privacy. Provided (1) exists in phones, or in some other
equipment people are willing to carry.

/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
s***@hotmail.com
2020-05-08 16:33:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jorgen Grahn
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Jorgen Grahn
...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
8. The corona app idea to inform people of infections around them is
no success so far, to much security/privacy concerns. I already
thought about such apps long time ago and discussed it with my
mother. She found it a bad idea, and me too actually because once
you go this route you can start creating all kinds of
"snitching"-apps and then our privacy goes out of the window.
The Pirate party showed[0] a solution which would respect privacy.
1. Sends out a series of random numbers over a short-range
communication medium. (I don't own a smartphone so I don't know if
this already exists.)
2. Receives and stores others' random numbers.
3. Receives messages like "the guy who sent <these> random numbers has
been diagnosed with a transmittable disease" and notifies the user
if the app has seen a lot of them.
No central database, and nothing meaningful to sniff for in public
places (not until you get ill anyway).
Seems the idea here is to avoid "identification numbers".
Seems like a single person has multiple random identification numbers.
There random indentification numbers would need to be very big
others there is too much potential for conflicting and confusing
random numbers.
Also the messages in which these are "broadcast" I presume would
have to be "anonymous". So no source ip and such.
Yes. The numbers themselves carry no information, but they would have
to be anonymous. Once again, I don't know if this mechanism exists.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
There is one problem with it though.
Let's suppose random numbers X,Y,Z are from an infected person.
How does infected person re-broadcast these numbers to inform that
this person is infected.
There needs to be some information stored about source/dest/contacts
to be able to do that.
I think my (3) above would be "download today's list of infected
numbers from the national health authority". If none or few of them
match numbers received in (2) you can discard the information.
Maybe my broadcast idea is better through air or so, might be more efficient.

If millions of people start downloading big lists of numbers might overwhelm server.

My first reaction would be how health authority gets these numbers but I guess they could "plug" in into cell towers, and also at least in theory they could be listening in everywhere and collect "infected numbers" or so and then re-spread these... with download list idea or broadcast.
Post by Jorgen Grahn
But I didn't read and understand all the details. The main point was
that it's possible to implement a virus alert mechanism that doesn't
violate privacy. Provided (1) exists in phones, or in some other
equipment people are willing to carry.
Well to believe it and evaluate it logically the details would be nice to know.

IF you can find a link to it I may give it a read just for the fun of it.

I am kinda a fan/fund of the pirate bay lol <G>.

Bye,
Skybuck ;) =D
Jorgen Grahn
2020-05-10 08:43:38 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Jorgen Grahn
But I didn't read and understand all the details. The main point was
that it's possible to implement a virus alert mechanism that doesn't
violate privacy. Provided (1) exists in phones, or in some other
equipment people are willing to carry.
Well to believe it and evaluate it logically the details would be nice to know.
IF you can find a link to it I may give it a read just for the fun of it.
Found it. It was a Facebook post by the European Pirate Party on April 18:
https://www.facebook.com/europeanpirateparty/posts/3362067363806580

/Jorgen
--
// Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Oo o. . .
\X/ snipabacken.se> O o .
s***@hotmail.com
2020-05-13 17:19:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jorgen Grahn
https://www.facebook.com/europeanpirateparty/posts/3362067363806580
Ok thanks for the link/picture !

Indeed, the idea seems to work as follows:

1. Every phone sends a random number to it's neighbours every 3 minutes or so.

2. Every phone stores these random numbers for 14 days.

4. If a phone's user is infected the random numbers are send to the hospital server.

5. If a phone's user wants to know if it was near an infected phone's user then it sends the stored numbers to the hospital, the hospital searches it's stored infected random numbers and returns if there is a match.

It's not a bad idea, there might be some slight problems with it:

1. The hospital server needs to perform the searches.

2. The hospital server needs to store the data, though if it's only 14 days than that's not so bad.

3. Requesting searches from the hospital server can identify the requester's IP and mobile phone. So it's not fully anonymous, at least in theory.

4. Though when using TOR to request then there could be some privacy.

Bye for now,
Skybuck.
s***@hotmail.com
2020-05-13 17:29:13 UTC
Permalink
Checking the replies from others for problems:

1. Bluetooth through walls for neighbours could be a problem. Though I don't see this as much of a problem for now, could increase storage a little bit, but shouldn't be too bad.

2. Rogue messages: Capturing random numbers from others and then pretending they are infected by sending their random numbers to the hospital.

3. Not requesting searches could indicate already infected, kinda funny. Phones would have to constantly request searches to not be suspicious, a bit far fetched, but I see a point in this ;)

4. Mobile phone could be hacked and cause mischief.

Bye for now,
Skybuck.
s***@hotmail.com
2020-05-13 17:32:04 UTC
Permalink
One more thing, somebody writes about a proposal from google, I think this could be what the dutch goverment might be considering/investigating:

https://github.com/DP-3T/documents

"Decentralized Privacy-Preserving Proximity Tracing"

Perhaps I will give this a read :)

Bye for now,
Skybuck.
s***@hotmail.com
2020-05-13 17:39:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
https://github.com/DP-3T/documents
"Decentralized Privacy-Preserving Proximity Tracing"
Perhaps I will give this a read :)
I scanned it quickly, and yes, this is basically the same idea as the pirate bay's idea ! LOL.

And the analyze the threats/concerns a bit more deeply ! ;)

Bye for now,
Skybuck.

s***@hotmail.com
2020-05-08 04:33:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Post by Jorgen Grahn
...
Post by s***@hotmail.com
8. The corona app idea to inform people of infections around them is
no success so far, to much security/privacy concerns. I already
thought about such apps long time ago and discussed it with my
mother. She found it a bad idea, and me too actually because once
you go this route you can start creating all kinds of
"snitching"-apps and then our privacy goes out of the window.
The Pirate party showed[0] a solution which would respect privacy.
1. Sends out a series of random numbers over a short-range
communication medium. (I don't own a smartphone so I don't know if
this already exists.)
2. Receives and stores others' random numbers.
3. Receives messages like "the guy who sent <these> random numbers has
been diagnosed with a transmittable disease" and notifies the user
if the app has seen a lot of them.
No central database, and nothing meaningful to sniff for in public
places (not until you get ill anyway).
Seems the idea here is to avoid "identification numbers".
Seems like a single person has multiple random identification numbers.
There random indentification numbers would need to be very big others there is too much potential for conflicting and confusing random numbers.
Also the messages in which these are "broadcast" I presume would have to be "anonymous". So no source ip and such.
There is one problem with it though.
Let's suppose random numbers X,Y,Z are from an infected person.
How does infected person re-broadcast these numbers to inform that this person is infected.
There needs to be some information stored about source/dest/contacts to be able to do that.
One other solution could be to re-broadcast these numbers after infection but this would need the infected person to be close again to the original receiver.
Which seems weird or might not happen ever again.
One other solution is to start spreading these random infected numbers via a network/routing.
If this is does anoymous and via broadcasting and no IP then that might work...
However if there is no source ip can it truely be routed effeciently ?
Maybe set all destinations on routers and such... it's a bit weird idea.
Broadcasting would be a useless technology to inform others.
I think I made a typo here and might to write "usefull" not sure ;) :)

But I think so.
Post by s***@hotmail.com
Even multicast might be of some use.
Some people might try to indentify these numbers though.
Bye for now,
Skybuck.
Loading...